Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Lane Boland's avatar

“…we would never have gotten to where we are on aviation safety by waiting for planes to crash before we fixed problems. Safety of large complex systems comes from being proactive, following industry safety standards, and independent checks. For edge cases that means fixing edge cases when you see one for the first time rather than waiting for an embarrassing news story.”

Exactly.

In aviation we typically find that minor incidents outnumber major incidents/accidents, often by several orders of magnitude. For every Waymo that got stuck in floodwaters (and publicized), there were probably several that drove through smaller amounts of water and did not get stuck or lose control. To use the wet/dry training data example, in those cases there would be a few dots in between the wet data and point B (Flood) where the road was under a manageable amount of water (but that fact may not have been known prior to entering it).

If companies can address those situations sooner through a proactive process then they can start to address some of the most severe risks instead of waiting for the next (hopefully only) embarrassing news story. Has there been any discussion of an aviation Safety Management System-type framework for AV manufacturers/operators?

Patrick Hillberg's avatar

Thanks for the post! As I’ve mentioned, I assign your work to my students. You have inspired me to move my own content onto Substack, and I’ll circle back in some future post along the following lines…

I see a need to look at AVs from a different perspective. It’s the basic premise of scientific research that if you understand a system, you can predict its behavior. (Think of residuals and regression analysis.) Famously, any research performed on swans prior to the 19th century would come to the certain conclusion that “Swans are always white”, until the Dutch (?) explored Australia and found black swans. Systems are easily predictable if we simply ignore relevant facts in the surrounding environment.

Except for the “edge cases”.

That these keep appearing implies that the AV mfrs cannot conceive of Black Swans. Notably, the mfrs are unable to emulate human drivers’ cognitive ability in situational awareness (your dog leash example). Waymo is quick to discuss reaction times (girl falling from a scooter, braking before hitting a child in a school zone), but fail to discuss how to avoid the situation altogether. That AV mfrs attempt to address an infinite supply of “edge cases” implies that they cannot predict (and thus do not comprehend) the more systemic behavior of our auto-based transportation system.

Which brings us to Daniel Kahneman and the human brain’s reliance on easily available information, to the exclusion of objectively valid counterpoints. When asked a hard question, we instinctively choose to provide an answer to an easier, unstated, question.

I see mega-billion dollar business models based on solving the driving problems (reaction times) that technologist believe that they can solve, rather than the transportation solutions required by society.

Crashes lead to $1B judgements, eventually the money dries up, and we can attempt a more systemic solutions.

4 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?